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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;Childcare&#8217; by Lorrie Moore</title>
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	<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/</link>
	<description>Read, Write, Think, Write Again</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:19:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: robb</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-142</guid>
		<description>This is from her new novel _A Gate at the Stairs_.

I read the book and enjoyed it, but.... it didn&#039;t change me.  Maybe I asked too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is from her new novel _A Gate at the Stairs_.</p>
<p>I read the book and enjoyed it, but&#8230;. it didn&#8217;t change me.  Maybe I asked too much.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa (Betty and Boo's Mommy)</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa (Betty and Boo's Mommy)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 01:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Oh my ... a new Lorrie Moore story?!  Love her.  

Found your blog from Color Online, and am very glad I did!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my &#8230; a new Lorrie Moore story?!  Love her.  </p>
<p>Found your blog from Color Online, and am very glad I did!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Arnold</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Whoops! You didn&#039;t say &quot;betrayal&quot;; you said &quot;insufficiently prepared&quot; and &quot;tricked.&quot; Same things? Maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops! You didn&#8217;t say &#8220;betrayal&#8221;; you said &#8220;insufficiently prepared&#8221; and &#8220;tricked.&#8221; Same things? Maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Arnold</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-116</guid>
		<description>Ah, I better understand your point -- you would have preferred to have only the young narrator. A valid preference, indeed. 

But I wonder about your charge of betrayal. I take this to mean that she waited too long before introducing the older voice, leading you to rely upon the story&#039;s narrative voice being that of of the college girl. 

If I interpret you point correctly, then note that there is at least a hint early on that the narrator is looking back from a significant remove in time to tell this story: the first sentence contains, &quot;The cold came late that fall...,&quot; and the story&#039;s fifth sentence (within the first para) begins, &quot;I was a student and needed money, so...&quot; Just a hint, but it is there. 

If I were to begin a short story with, &quot;That winter, I was a soldier and needed money, so...&quot; the reader might well suspect that I&#039;m a soldier no longer. She might not be certain, but she might well suspect it. 

When I got to the part about collecting Glenn Gould recordings, I was probably too gobsmacked with the exquisite choice of &quot;loopy&quot; (a bulls-eye if I ever read one!) to notice the change in perspective. If I were a more critical (careful) reader I surely would have noticed that change, loopy Glenn Gould recordings or not. 

We have, incidentally, Gould&#039;s &quot;Goldberg Variations,&quot; and he accompanies his piano with humming, passim, through the whole thing. Loopy indeed. But great, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I better understand your point &#8212; you would have preferred to have only the young narrator. A valid preference, indeed. </p>
<p>But I wonder about your charge of betrayal. I take this to mean that she waited too long before introducing the older voice, leading you to rely upon the story&#8217;s narrative voice being that of of the college girl. </p>
<p>If I interpret you point correctly, then note that there is at least a hint early on that the narrator is looking back from a significant remove in time to tell this story: the first sentence contains, &#8220;The cold came late that fall&#8230;,&#8221; and the story&#8217;s fifth sentence (within the first para) begins, &#8220;I was a student and needed money, so&#8230;&#8221; Just a hint, but it is there. </p>
<p>If I were to begin a short story with, &#8220;That winter, I was a soldier and needed money, so&#8230;&#8221; the reader might well suspect that I&#8217;m a soldier no longer. She might not be certain, but she might well suspect it. </p>
<p>When I got to the part about collecting Glenn Gould recordings, I was probably too gobsmacked with the exquisite choice of &#8220;loopy&#8221; (a bulls-eye if I ever read one!) to notice the change in perspective. If I were a more critical (careful) reader I surely would have noticed that change, loopy Glenn Gould recordings or not. </p>
<p>We have, incidentally, Gould&#8217;s &#8220;Goldberg Variations,&#8221; and he accompanies his piano with humming, passim, through the whole thing. Loopy indeed. But great, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Arnold</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-115</guid>
		<description>I am compelled to comment on your observations about the author breaking a rule by having the character &quot;meandering&quot; on a street. I think you are referring to the rule that a writer should not begin (scene, chapter, book, story) with the character in transit. He or she should BE somewhere, not GOING somewhere. 

Since we all spend so much of our time in transit, the reason for this rule eludes me. Stuff happens on the way, in other words. 

Because I was aware of this rule, I noted that it was violated in a novel I had just started (&quot;The Dud Avocado,&quot; by Elaine Dundy) by the character walking on a Paris street in the opening paragraph. The scene worked for me. 

I grabbed another book I&#039;d recently been dipping into for re-reads, &quot;The Nick Adams Stories,&quot; and found that in at least two of the stories Hemingway begins with the character in transit; in &quot;Ten Indians,&quot; Nick is riding home in a horse drawn wagon, and in &quot;The Three-Day Blow,&quot; Nick is walking alone down a country road by an apple orchard. In my favorite short story of all time, &quot;The Big Two-Hearted River,&quot; the spirit of the rule is violated by the story&#039;s beginning in which Nick, alone, has just dropped down from a train more or less in the middle of nowhere in Michigan, for a few days of camping and fishing. Ditto in &quot;The Battler,&quot; which starts with Nick picking himself up from a railroad right-of-way after having been knocked off a freight train by a brakeman. 

I&#039;m pretty much coming to the conclusion that rules regarding writing fiction send the message &quot;Be careful here&quot; rather than &quot;Don&#039;t do this.&quot; 

So many rules have opposing rules; e.g., &quot;You are telling not showing here&quot; vs. &quot;Reduce some of your dialogue to narrative summary.&quot; 

Or the opposing workshop-comments on a passage; e.g., &quot;This is a clever bit of foreshadowing&quot; vs. &quot;Delete this. You are broadcasting what is going to happen.&quot; 

Often, the issue is a matter of balance and aptness. Such as the long passages of infodump in some successfully written novels, passages that supply info that the reader longs (and deserves) to know. 

In sum, for me the rules of writing fiction are more and more becoming amber lights saying Caution, rather than red lights saying Stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am compelled to comment on your observations about the author breaking a rule by having the character &#8220;meandering&#8221; on a street. I think you are referring to the rule that a writer should not begin (scene, chapter, book, story) with the character in transit. He or she should BE somewhere, not GOING somewhere. </p>
<p>Since we all spend so much of our time in transit, the reason for this rule eludes me. Stuff happens on the way, in other words. </p>
<p>Because I was aware of this rule, I noted that it was violated in a novel I had just started (&#8220;The Dud Avocado,&#8221; by Elaine Dundy) by the character walking on a Paris street in the opening paragraph. The scene worked for me. </p>
<p>I grabbed another book I&#8217;d recently been dipping into for re-reads, &#8220;The Nick Adams Stories,&#8221; and found that in at least two of the stories Hemingway begins with the character in transit; in &#8220;Ten Indians,&#8221; Nick is riding home in a horse drawn wagon, and in &#8220;The Three-Day Blow,&#8221; Nick is walking alone down a country road by an apple orchard. In my favorite short story of all time, &#8220;The Big Two-Hearted River,&#8221; the spirit of the rule is violated by the story&#8217;s beginning in which Nick, alone, has just dropped down from a train more or less in the middle of nowhere in Michigan, for a few days of camping and fishing. Ditto in &#8220;The Battler,&#8221; which starts with Nick picking himself up from a railroad right-of-way after having been knocked off a freight train by a brakeman. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty much coming to the conclusion that rules regarding writing fiction send the message &#8220;Be careful here&#8221; rather than &#8220;Don&#8217;t do this.&#8221; </p>
<p>So many rules have opposing rules; e.g., &#8220;You are telling not showing here&#8221; vs. &#8220;Reduce some of your dialogue to narrative summary.&#8221; </p>
<p>Or the opposing workshop-comments on a passage; e.g., &#8220;This is a clever bit of foreshadowing&#8221; vs. &#8220;Delete this. You are broadcasting what is going to happen.&#8221; </p>
<p>Often, the issue is a matter of balance and aptness. Such as the long passages of infodump in some successfully written novels, passages that supply info that the reader longs (and deserves) to know. </p>
<p>In sum, for me the rules of writing fiction are more and more becoming amber lights saying Caution, rather than red lights saying Stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Alisa</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Two narrators, and two kinds of knowing, are fine. For me, though, this story seemed to me to be in the naive voice of the narrator when she was young - knowing only what she knew when she was roaming the winter streets looking for a babysitting job. I liked that voice, I liked that perspective. When the older, more knowing narrator first intrudes (say, with the restaurant) I felt insufficiently prepared. I felt like it was still the young voice but with unrealistic perspective. I didn&#039;t realize there was a distinct older persona looking back on these times with a bit of cynicism. (Remember all those discussions about how the reader doesn&#039;t like to feel tricked?) I also, personally, did not care for the voice of the older narrator. I would much rather have heard only from her younger self.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two narrators, and two kinds of knowing, are fine. For me, though, this story seemed to me to be in the naive voice of the narrator when she was young &#8211; knowing only what she knew when she was roaming the winter streets looking for a babysitting job. I liked that voice, I liked that perspective. When the older, more knowing narrator first intrudes (say, with the restaurant) I felt insufficiently prepared. I felt like it was still the young voice but with unrealistic perspective. I didn&#8217;t realize there was a distinct older persona looking back on these times with a bit of cynicism. (Remember all those discussions about how the reader doesn&#8217;t like to feel tricked?) I also, personally, did not care for the voice of the older narrator. I would much rather have heard only from her younger self.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Arnold</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-113</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t quite get the fuss about the &quot;two narrators,&quot; the then person and the later person. 

After all, when does a first-person narrative in past tense not imply a narrator existing in present time? 

Is it a big deal if the narrator says, &quot;Back in those days...,&quot; or even &quot;In my youthful naivete...&quot; even though such observations might inform us that the narrator has changed (or collected Glenn Gould recordings) since the time the story elements occurred?

Rather than being two narrators, it seems to me nothing more than an affirmation that the narrator, like the rest of us, had a past life and has a contemporary life. 

In first-person, past-tense narrative there is always a &quot;narrative present&quot; (my term),  even thought it may be minutes, hours, or years after the events described in the past tense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite get the fuss about the &#8220;two narrators,&#8221; the then person and the later person. </p>
<p>After all, when does a first-person narrative in past tense not imply a narrator existing in present time? </p>
<p>Is it a big deal if the narrator says, &#8220;Back in those days&#8230;,&#8221; or even &#8220;In my youthful naivete&#8230;&#8221; even though such observations might inform us that the narrator has changed (or collected Glenn Gould recordings) since the time the story elements occurred?</p>
<p>Rather than being two narrators, it seems to me nothing more than an affirmation that the narrator, like the rest of us, had a past life and has a contemporary life. </p>
<p>In first-person, past-tense narrative there is always a &#8220;narrative present&#8221; (my term),  even thought it may be minutes, hours, or years after the events described in the past tense.</p>
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		<title>By: Alisa</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-112</guid>
		<description>Just read on another blog that is adapted from a novel. Maybe that explains a lot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read on another blog that is adapted from a novel. Maybe that explains a lot?</p>
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		<title>By: Alisa</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-111</guid>
		<description>Judging by the beginning of the story I didn&#039;t realize that there were two narrators (&#039;then&#039; and &#039;now&#039;). I thought it was only &#039;then&#039;. The only place I found any proof of of the double-voice being intentional was right near the end &quot;Later, I would own every loopy Glenn Gould recording available, but there in the car with Sarah was the first time I’d ever heard him play.&quot; Glad it&#039;s not just some personal foible that made me mind this.

BUT, I&#039;m not so sure how I feel about being compared to the character. I&#039;m not Midwestern (or wasn&#039;t) though we did have those German restaurants in the Boro and around. But the character (when she&#039;s not being the old voice) is so...not naive, but unworldly. Maybe these days that&#039;s a good thing to be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging by the beginning of the story I didn&#8217;t realize that there were two narrators (&#8216;then&#8217; and &#8216;now&#8217;). I thought it was only &#8216;then&#8217;. The only place I found any proof of of the double-voice being intentional was right near the end &#8220;Later, I would own every loopy Glenn Gould recording available, but there in the car with Sarah was the first time I’d ever heard him play.&#8221; Glad it&#8217;s not just some personal foible that made me mind this.</p>
<p>BUT, I&#8217;m not so sure how I feel about being compared to the character. I&#8217;m not Midwestern (or wasn&#8217;t) though we did have those German restaurants in the Boro and around. But the character (when she&#8217;s not being the old voice) is so&#8230;not naive, but unworldly. Maybe these days that&#8217;s a good thing to be?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Arnold</title>
		<link>http://alisaword.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/childcare-by-lorrie-moore/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alisaword.wordpress.com/?p=606#comment-110</guid>
		<description>I have re-read the story couple of times, trying to analyze the particulars that lead me to feel that you could have written this story, that the author&#039;s voice reminds me of your authorial voice. 

I have concluded that it is a gestalt sort of thing, no particular aspect standing out as determinative. Yet, her similes are, like yours, juicy and apt; her characters (save for the adoption woman) are uneasy in life, as yours sometimes are; and her imagination is, like yours, keener than the average writer&#039;s.  

Having used German as a crutch once here, I might as well do it again; you and Moore, in this story, seem to me to share the same weltanschauung, which sort of means world view, but can also include ideas and beliefs about the nature of things. 

Think of two Quakers sitting down to write their own version of a short-story plot about killing an elephant. Or two Nazis writing the same plot. I have no label for you and Moore, but that&#039;s as close as I can come to the concept I&#039;m trying to express here. 

Incidentally, have you read Orwell&#039;s non-fiction treatment of that plot, &quot;Shooting an Elephant&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have re-read the story couple of times, trying to analyze the particulars that lead me to feel that you could have written this story, that the author&#8217;s voice reminds me of your authorial voice. </p>
<p>I have concluded that it is a gestalt sort of thing, no particular aspect standing out as determinative. Yet, her similes are, like yours, juicy and apt; her characters (save for the adoption woman) are uneasy in life, as yours sometimes are; and her imagination is, like yours, keener than the average writer&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>Having used German as a crutch once here, I might as well do it again; you and Moore, in this story, seem to me to share the same weltanschauung, which sort of means world view, but can also include ideas and beliefs about the nature of things. </p>
<p>Think of two Quakers sitting down to write their own version of a short-story plot about killing an elephant. Or two Nazis writing the same plot. I have no label for you and Moore, but that&#8217;s as close as I can come to the concept I&#8217;m trying to express here. </p>
<p>Incidentally, have you read Orwell&#8217;s non-fiction treatment of that plot, &#8220;Shooting an Elephant&#8221;?</p>
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